| It is
hard to imagine an out of town artist who has played Chicago more than Henry Rollins has.
Between Black Flag, the Rollins Band, and numerous spoken word tours, he has been on a
Chicago stage multiple times each year for the past two decades. This past March, at two
performances at the Metro, the Rollins Band recorded a live album. The result is a two CD
powerhouse of sound and energy. I had the chance to catch up with Rollins to talk about
his busy schedule, the current state of Napster, Z-Boys, the Osbournes, and the new album.
ChicagoGigs: Was Chicago and the Metro your
first choice for recording The Only Way to Know for Sure?
 HR: Yeah. People are always very kind to us there; the
audience is always very good. I really, really like the Metro. I’ve been in that
venue since I was about 21, 22 years old and I’ve always had a really good time in
there, and I do like the sound. So I decided we’ll do the record there, and I’ve
done a few records of talking stuff in Chicago before, so Chicago types who are fans of
mine know that and I thought they’d get a kick out of it.
CG: You have been playing Chicago for two
decades now.
HR: I’ve been playing a lot of places for
two decades now, but Chicago is always a pressure gig. You want to be good every night,
but any band will tell you really work hard to make sure it’s the best gig that week.
You want to make sure you don’t have a bad gig, you never really want to anyway, but
Chicago, New York, DC, LA, it’s one of those hot cities.
CG: Do you think Chicago has changed a lot in
the past twenty years?
HR: Me being there about four days a year, I
can’t really tell. You have a lot more Starbucks than you used to, but realize
I’m speaking from a level of relative ignorance because I’m not there often as a
real resident. I keep coming back to basically the same neighborhood, I stay in the same
hotel, I’m always around Belmont, Racine, Addison, you know that’s the
neighborhood I’m in. Most of Chicago I’ve probably never seen.
CG: Some of the songs on The Only Way to
Know for Sure you’ve been playing for years, are there any songs that
you’re just sick of and will never play again?
HR: "Liar." I was really bored of it
about ten times into playing it because it was kind of like a joke. The song works on a
punch line. The verse asks a question and the chorus says, "well here’s
why." It’s like going out and singing a musical version of "why did the
chicken cross the road" every night, where everyone knows the answer. It was not
something that was interesting to me six weeks into the tour, so we played it that year,
because it was new and after that said "okay, I’m done with it" and never
returned to it.
CG: Was it frustrating since that was one of the
songs that has gotten the most attention?
HR: It is probably the only song I’ve done
that’s gotten that kind of attention. It’s perfect irony for my small life, it
took us about five minutes to write. Literally. Basically, our bass player tuning up and
goofing around while every one else was plugging in. He and I started goofing around with
this bass line and it became the song, and it was the first day of band practice for album
work. Later on, we were say "remember that thing where I was saying ‘I’m a
liar’ and everyone was laughing?" Let’s see if there was something in that,
and it kind of turned into a song. It became this medium rotation video, light rotation
single on the radio, which is the best we ever got for rotation. For a big band that would
be failure, for us it was like "are you kidding, we were on the radio two times in
one day?" When that MTV and radio machine is working for you, it’s an incredible
thing, your life changes. There are 300 more people at your gigs the next night. It is
really intense. And then the single goes away, and those people go away, and those people
who were going, "hey, call me" suddenly go, "um, and what is this in
reference to?" Oh, I see, the fifteen minutes is up. I think it kind of had a
damaging effect on some of the members of my old band.
CG: Can you tell us a bit more about the
vocalists you’ve selected for your upcoming album to benefit the West Memphis Three?
HR: We recorded 24 Black Flag songs and we have
a bunch of singers come in and sing on them. The songs recorded very well, my guys got the
nuances of those songs and we got these incredible vocalists. Great singers, really
generous people, big rock stars.
CG: I’ve heard rumors of Corey from
Slipknot and of Jim of Pennywise.
HR: Corey went on the radio, talked all about
it, and then he freaked out about it, "was I not supposed to that." Everybody
who has been on the record has told the one person who goes on the Internet; it’s not
some big secret. Me, personally, I’m keeping all the names till we’re a little
closer to release time just to get a bigger bang for the buck, because the buck to be made
is all going to benefit these kids who are in jail. They’re beyond blown away that
someone is doing this. Apparently, a lot of people have promised them things, and I think
they mean well, but it’s a real bitch to follow up. This record has taken my summer
to do. It is a bit of a high call. I wrote them, goofing, saying "you bastards,
you’ve taken my summer vacation!" but I wouldn’t have it any other way. I
remember the years 16 to 25 as being pretty amazing, well they spent theirs in prison, for
something they didn’t do. If you did the crime, good. Rot in a cage. These kids
shouldn’t be in there, and since they spent nine years in a cage, I’ll take six
weeks of my summer and $50,000 and get busy. It’s not really a consideration
considering what they’ve been through. It’s easily the least I can do.
CG: Napster filed Chapter 11 yesterday. Do you
care?
HR: Napster filed chapter 11? How would Napster
get paid anyway from music they didn’t write? I never really understood how the guy
from Napster would get an income not having written a song in his life. I just don’t
really understand how that works. How you download the Korn album that is not even out
yet, and they guy from Napster gets paid?
CG: How do you feel about file sharing in
general? You are involved with every possible angle in the music business, your views on
the subject must feel conflicted at times.
HR: Well, for me when a kid comes up to me and
says "I just heard your new talking record, yeah I downloaded it," I’m glad
he checked it out if he wasn’t going to otherwise, but how is a guy ever going to get
out of debt to a record company if everyone just downloads his stuff. I would rather you
listen to my record than you pay me for my record, because I’d rather be heard than
paid, even when I was broke. So, it’s kind of a difficult question. Bands need their
audience’s support. I think bands should get less money for an advance, records
should cost less to make, studio executives should get less money, record companies should
make less money, and records should cost less in the marketplace. That way, when you
download an album from a band and that band says, "you hurt me," you will
believe them. When Lars from Metallica says, "you hurt me," it’s kind of
hard to feel bad for a guy with easily $50 million in the bank. On the other hand, with
smaller artists, the avant-guard jazz guy who plays for 50 people a night, buy the fucking
record and support the guy. I guarantee you he’s living in shtuck. So, I’m on
both sides of it. Reviewers have already taken this new live album and put in on Ebay.
They got it for free, they reviewed it, and now they are selling it. Isn’t that
sweet. Thanks. That’s the way of the world. You give people the Internet, and for all
the good stuff, White Power groups have their websites too. It’s always a mixed bag
of treats and tricks, but I always have to think the right people will survive. If Sony
goes down, cool, but music will never go down. Struggle is good; it keeps the humor in
tact.
CG: Are you ever satisfied?
HR: Satisfaction should be a brief, transitory
state. Your satisfaction should just drive you to new states of dissatisfaction.
Satisfaction is about 20 minutes a day. Post-gig, 20 minutes while you’re still
breathing hard and the sweat is drying. That’s a great time of the evening for me.
Gig done. Gig done well, and now it’s time to think about what you just did and enjoy
the fact that you did a good thing and that’s a whole different enjoyment factor than
what you just did on stage. And then, that thing you just built, those 25 songs you just
played, turns into a castle made out of sand and here comes the high wind and it’s
been erased. Now you have no credibility until tomorrow night at 8 pm when you have to go
prove it all over again. It’s like chalk art on the sidewalks of New York.
CG: You’ve talked before about that
post-show time as being a kind of afterglow, do you feel that way about writing?
HR: No, the physical aspect of performance is
very cathartic and it’s very immediate. You go out there and you do it, and two hours
later, you’re done. The writing is like one long, grinding, earache. It’s like a
migraine. For me publishing a book is only momentary relief before I start another book. I
must be somewhat of a real writer now, because I absolutely dread writing. All good
writers I have ever read hated it because of what it takes to really do it. So, maybe
I’m getting the hang of it, because it is not a joy. It’s an obsessive torture
that I love doing. It’s just that it is rarely enjoyable. It’s that kind of
happy agony.
CG: You seem to write the most when you’re
on the road.
HR: I’m on the road most of the time.
CG: Yet, you still express interest in seeing
more places and traveling. Where else do you want to go?
HR: I wish I could check out more of Africa and
more of dicier parts of Indonesia and Malaysia. I’d like to be able to go to Burma,
and Java, but apparently, these are a little too hot to handle. I really want to go to
Zimbabwe and go see Arthur Rimbaud’s house in Harare but apparently, that’s not
such a cool place to be right now.
CG: You’ve been some places to some places
that right now aren’t such cool places to be, places like India.
HR: India’s not so cool, Israel’s not
so cool, and Egypt’s not so cool. I’ve been to those places.
CG: How would you settle all these problems?
HR: I’ve thought about this before. B-52
air strikes in any place of conflict, carpet-bombing equally both sides with Ramones
albums. I think once everyone got the first four Ramones albums cranking through boom
boxes world wide, I think people would see the light. Also, I’d give everyone a
travel visa. I know semantically, yes, we risk highjacking. Speaking just as having fun
with the idea, I think if everyone got a chance to travel more to places that they were
afraid of they would find that they have little to be afraid of. It’s a culture that
is fascinating, the people are warm and wonderful, and the people want basically the same
things in life that the guy in Ohio wants. I think you’d have a lot less problems in
the world. I think a lot of our conflict comes from ignorance and fear. I’d think
you’d have a hard time having fear of Cuba if you went and spent a week in Cuba,
digging the music and the people. You’d be forced to see they’re just like you,
some schlep under the sun, just trying to get by.
CG: I finally got to see Dogtown and Z-Boys
last week. Was this film a bit of a reunion for you or have you kept in contact with some
of these people?
HR: I don’t really keep in touch with
anybody. Of anybody in that film, the person I see the most would be Ian McKaye. Tony
[Hawk] I had not seen for quite a while, Stacy [Peralta] actually came to my office and
interviewed me, so that’s where that interview came from. Some of the Z-Boys, like
Shogo Kubo, I had never met before the night of the premiere. It was a real honor to meet
him. He’s a really amazing guy. Having met Jeff Ho last year, that was really cool. I
had never met him before. I had never met Bob Biniak before the premiere. So, these are
people that are heroes to me. They were people I admired growing up, pictures I would look
at in skate magazines. The premiere was a cool evening, it was the second time I had seen
the film and I liked it better the second time. The first time was great, but seeing it
all again was even cooler. I am very happy Stacy made that movie.
CG: You mentioned looking at photographs, do you
keep in contact with photographer Glen E. Friedman?
HR: Oh yeah, I have a book coming out in
September and the cover is a Glen shot. I saw him the other night at the premier. I see
him fairly often, meaning once a year, which is a lot for me to see someone I don’t
directly work with. He’s a very, very good guy. A very high fiber dude.
CG: Everywhere you look in the media right now,
you see the Osbournes. Have you seen the show?
HR: I’ve seen about 20 minutes of it. It
looks like the Osbournes hanging out. I’ve hung out with them on the private jet,
been backstage and at dinner and they just are having their fun. I hope it doesn’t
mess their kids up. I hope Jack and his sister do the right thing with their chunk of the
money. I think it’s interesting that Ozzy has morphed into this kind of funny,
American chew toy. I don’t think anyone really thought he was going to be the guy who
was going to Svengali your kids to a life of evil and doom, even in the Black Sabbath
days. It’s interesting how through Sharon’s marketing, Ozzy has this whole other
life in media.
CG: Would you ever do something like that with
your own life?
HR: No. I don’t live that out loud.
There’s a certain vanity or extroverted nature about that I find unattractive for me.
I also find it kind of painful to watch. Having spent a lot of time in front of the
camera, I know when people are acting. It’s funny watching non-actors doing what they
think is an acting job. If you gave me choices it would not be what I would watch if the
History channel was on, but that’s just me. I don’t think there is anything
wrong with what they are doing. Like I said, I just hope it doesn’t mess their kids
up. Ozzy and Sharon really love those kids. I think they are great parents. I think
everyone will turn out okay and richer than they already are. What’s important to me
is that kids grow up drug free. If you want to try out drugs when your 22, I think
it’s a bad idea, but it’s better to try them out when you're 22 than when you're
12. I have a feeling that the Osbourne kids were raised, on that level, pretty f***ing
strict.
CG: When are you going to be back in Chicago?
HR: Probably either an in-store for my latest
book in the fall, and maybe a talking show in late fall. I haven’t decided if
I’m going to do talking shows in America this fall yet. I’ve giving myself till
Friday to think it over.
CG: Best of luck with the new album. Your fans
will eat this one up. It is one of the truest live albums I’ve heard.
HR: There are no fixes or changes on it.
There’s mistakes on it, we’re human, so we left them all in. We did not overdub
anything. The best part of the record to me, besides the boys playing so well, is the fact
that the sonic quality is really strong. A lot of live albums to me just don’t sound
very good because they are done digitally and overdubbed later. This one has a nice
wide-open, big sound to it. The album I heard in my head is the one that came out. We
achieved the sonic intensity I wanted by doing it the real way; 24 track analog tapes,
good mics and good playing. There are no effects on my voice, it’s just dry. It is
what it is. Where it’s off key, you’ll know, because there it is.
Henry Rollins Website
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